Qualifications
"You're sick." "You're whacked." "You have a secret agenda." "You are ungracious." "You're a know-it-all." "You're a liar."
Those are just a few of the things that have been said to me on- and offline since beginning this site. Most of these things don't elicit more than an eyeroll, and a few of them actually make me laugh. (The allegations against my mental health were a nice touch. ;-)
But by far the insult that has most hurt was from the commenter who said he originally liked this site for the church updates but that it became too much about "theological preaching," even to the point that he found it "nauseous."
Look, I know I'm a wordy guy. I am fully aware that I am a "writerly sort." I don't sound exactly this way when I talk (because, naturally, there's less forethought in speech than there is in the written word), but I do sound a bit like it. This is the real me. I'm not posturing. I know I can come across as arrogant or condescending or like a know-it-all, even when I don't mean to. I totally get that.
But what I feel is very important to stress to you, the readers of this site, is that the more general stuff on Spirituality that I talk about here is not just me navel-gazing. It's not some sort of theological self-gratification. I wish I could tell you all the junk I've been through in my life, and am going through right now, but if I can't speak generally without getting insulted, I'm sure not going to be vulnerable like that. What I do want you to know, however, is that the stuff of this site are not just Big Ideas to me. I've, as they say, "workshopped" this stuff.
Sin, grace, repentance, forgiveness, reconciliation, redemption. My heart and soul have bled those things. My writing style may smack of detachment or emotional divestment, but if I could snip off a bit of my heart and let you see it, you would see all of these things as outpourings of my life. I have anguished over them. I have been offended and comforted by grace. I have wrestled to the point of physical pain with my sin and the sin of others. Like I said, if I could show you the truth as you'd need to, you wouldn't question my investment in the stuff of discipleship any more.
So you can keep calling me a liar, you can keep accusing me of not getting it, you can keep believing this blog is just about me being wordy and trying to impress. But you don't know me. So don't ever tell me I don't believe it or haven't lived it. I am clinging to the hem of Jesus' robe in such a way right now, that if you truly understood, you wouldn't change places with me for all the money in the world.
Peace
posted by Jared @ 6:40 AM
16 comments
16 Comments:
I'm sorry for calling you whacked.
Take care.
Michele, I appreciate that.
Chuck, thanks so much, man.
// snip off a bit of my heart and let you see it //
thank you Jared. and amen to that.
Words are a vessel for us to communicate what is in our heart and in our head. esp. here, what's in our heart. and you Jared excel at being able to use words to do that. what's missing, in the writing format,
is we cannot see each other's facial expressions and demeanor, or tone. therefore more than ever we should give each other the benefit of the doubt that what we all say, if we're here sharing, is coming from an element of wanting to help each other learn and be better, and learn how to be more like Him.
I want more than anything to improve in the area of my life where I give grace, and in worldly terms, the benefit of the doubt.
I don't know what we would do without this format where the faithful at BCC can come and share and learn from each other. I have learned so much from all of you.
Those who cast stones at Jared or this site, only reinforce the fact that they have doubts about their own positions and choices. If they were firmly standing on faith , what we do here should not matter to them, they would be and should be too busy focusing on their new paths.
I have faith that God is working a plan through all of us to do great things at BCC, and focusing and refocusing our eyes on Him....BCC can and will be the lighthouse on the hill that we are intended to be. that still is, and was, a great goal set up by our founders (and all of us).
Rhonda
Jared,
I don't know if you will post this, and if not it's ok. But Evan's last sentence, is what gets me concerned. Whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is true, think about these things. I haven't even opened the link he sent, but my main beef, was, let's move forward. Instead of knocking others down (whether the 'others' is the elders OR the Fosters).
I think my comment got lost because my internet konked out. I will try again, sorry if you get this twice. I actually will rephrase a little. I don't want to 'skirt' from the issues. I like how BCC is not skirting from the issues (I have heard Bill online). But what concerns me, is the 'jabbing' tone in the way you are presenting the Monday morning info on Foster. And maybe I am just misreading your tone. I have said before, and I believe Jared and I agreed on this point, if you don't approve or like what Foster is doing, don't go to it. Take a stand by not showing up. Same for BCC. If you don't want to be in the church anymore, find somewhere else for God to use you and bless you. I just find it pointless to 'jab' and 'pick'. If God is in what Foster is doing, He will bless it. If He's not, He won't. Isn't that what is key?
As far as the gathering goes...listening to the whole thing, I do not really see, at this point at least what is wrong with it. It does not appear he is doing it with the intention of ruining bcc, or that right now he is really committed to any church. I guess the real question people have to answer is..does he have a right now to go pastor another church? In my view, that is for God to sort out. In the gathering, he mentioned in what seemed to be a genuine way that he had this vision but was seeking God about it...he said that he didn't know if it was God's will or not. If he is truly seeking God on this, the truth will flow out of that. So, I don't see anything particularly wrong with the gathering.
As to Jared's post..and this is NOT me being nit-picky or anything else..but I think you would go further in the minds of your critics..if you perhaps showed some more of yourself in these writings..because it can come off as coming from a wannabe high minded theologian type..maybe if you shared your testimony it might help.. and I must say I hope you realize that there are a lot of people worse off than any of us blogging on this site. We lived in air conditioned luxury, have convenient cars, so forth and so on which is a lot better than some parts of the world..so, I mean, to encourage you, even though I do not know what you are going through, we are a blessed people with many blessings in this life comparatively...
if you perhaps showed some more of yourself in these writings
You mean like when I talked about having experienced pastoral abuse? Or having been so attached to a pastor that insults to him put me into physical shock? You mean like the About Me posts?
I've tried to offer as much as myself as I thought necessary, but the main reason I've held back is not because I didn't care to offer credibility, but because I didn't want the site to be All About Me. I've had to answer questions all about me, because some critics seem to focus attention there.
maybe if you shared your testimony it might help
As I mentioned, if I can't speak generally without people getting hostile, I am absolutely not going to open up my personal life on this site. People either believe I mean what I write or they don't; I will help them as far as I can, but I'm not going to reveal my past and present anguish to a bunch of strangers who have not demonstrated any comprehension of what grace actually is.
I hope you realize that there are a lot of people worse off than any of us blogging on this site
When I say if people knew what I've gone through and am going through they wouldn't change places with me, I meant it. Sure, I'm not poor or being persecuted, but I don't consider either one of those things "the worst that could happen."
Beyond that, my business is my business. It's not something no one else has ever gone through, but it ain't just some run-of-the-mill "difficulty" everybody faces.
we are a blessed people with many blessings in this life comparatively
Um, yeah. I've tried to talk about all the good stuff on here.
It's only in challenging my authenticity that I felt compelled to mention the existence of bad stuff.
But I've been trying to speak blessings since this site began.
Evan,
I think you misunderstand me here.
... but I think you consistently interpret anything that is critical regarding David Foster as an implicit "jab" or "pick". It may be that you simply have a very sensitive and empathetic concern for him and what he does or where he goes henceforth."
It's probably because you don't know me, and I don't know you, which is fair and fine. But I actually wrote a blog on my site, about this. Since this is Jared's site I will not post it, because I don't want to interfere with his. But in summary, I think Foster made a lot of mistakes. I think the elders made a lot of mistakes in the way it was handled (and please, let's agree to disagree on this if necessary, and not get into that -)- I just find it pointless in the way it was presented. We can agree to disagree on that too. But the reason I like Dirk's site a lot (and I know you do too Jared), is because he just presents the info. Not as a 'seems' people disagree with how Foster is doing things. People agreeing or disagreeing as a majority, doesn't necessarily mean they are right (or wrong).
My first thought when I read this latest posting was "now thats what I call a case of the kettle calling the pot black." Please add coward to the list of things you have been called! Or have the guts to post all comments. Don't give me this BS about "any anonymous comments that make allegations or accusations or spread gossip will be deleted." You leave that kind of stuff on here if it suits your purpose. Just look at the churchladys comments on the Thriving on Conflict post. Sir you want it both ways ...grow up!
I let that last comment through just so readers could see I'm not making this stuff up.
Apparently I can now add "coward" to the list (and this particular commenter's insults pretty much dominate the existing list already ;-), because I don't give him the freedom to say whatever he wants.
He also presumes to know that the only comments I allow are those I agree with, which leaves the burden of proof upon him to answer why I've been letting commenters question and criticize me on the site.
The truth is it's not just people I disagree with whose comments get deleted. I've rejected a fair share of anti-Foster comments.
You, angry sir, can't have it both ways. If I publish every attack job on Foster I wanted to, you'd blame me for hosting such dreck. But because I delete most of that, you don't see it and therefore blame me for only posting that which suits my purpose. (My purpose, btw, is a peaceable site.)
All of this could be solved, of course, if EVERYONE would cut out the insults and destructive criticisms. But until you, anonymous namecaller, stop calling me names, you have absolutely no place of integrity from which to dictate to me how I should moderate comments. Act like a mature Christian and your concerns would reflect wisdom; as you are presenting yourself, they only reflect immaturity.
Evan,
You do have I guess a legit point, but to me, it is like this...it kind of is all about what you seek God for/about. The one thing I think we can all say he caught the heart of God on was the church concept and vision. It is seemingly apparent that he did not listen to God re how to treat employees, but that does not mean he has not been listening to God at all. It is not really an either or type scenario in my view. Like most people,
he listened to God on some things and not on some other important things..that does not mean he would not be listening to God especially on a church vision..
I think the real issue is spiritual character. If you have to "hear from God" to know you shouldn't abuse other people verbally and emotionally, you have deeper spiritual problems than just being superficially arbitrary about what you listen to God about.
I see these "behavioral questions" as pretty clearly covered in Scripture. The fruit of the leadership was not just inconsistent with the fruits of the Spirit (peace, patience, gentleness, kindness...) but pretty much directly opposite of them. And the biblical qualifications for church leadership directly say a leader should not be given to fits of anger or be lacking in self-control.
It's beyond "everyone has issues." It really was a "qualifications for ministry/leadership" issue, and that's why I think the decision that he was unfit for the position was the right one. That he was given plenty of opportunities to work on repentance and restoration and squandered them only speaks to the lengths the elders went to keep the man in his position despite his problems. If they made any mistake, and I'm one of the few who think they didn't, it was probably not having made this decision sooner. There might have been fewer victims.
but that does not mean he should not/never pastor a church again..nor should he have to repent to bcc'ers(not saying that is wrong on its own accord) to be able to have his own gathering
Well, I'd leave "never" out of the equation, since repentance is the antidote to never.
I believe, given one's repentance, that restoration takes time.
Look, what the man does at this point is none of my business. I really don't care where he goes or what he does. I have no stake in it. I try to comment on it only to the extent to which I discern it relates to BCC. I think that extent is limited right now, which is why in general I have limited my comments about him.
What happened, though, is that the elders decided he was unfit to pastor our church. More than that, though, is that he was unfit to pastor period. This is based on his behavior and the attitude and spirit that gave rise to that behavior. It is more than "he can't stay at BCC because he hurt people at BCC"; it is "he violates biblical qualifications for pastoral office therefore he is unfit for pastoral office."
I have no idea if he's contacted any of the people he's hurt to express repentance. It's none of my business, really. That's between him and them.
But given the theoretical (theoretical, mind you) that he is the same as he was then -- and based on his public statements and positions, he has not only not admitted wrong in those situations but dismissed or put spin on his actions -- then it is my opinion he's unfit to pastor anywhere right now. That's not never. That's him right now, a church right now. And I only say that based on what the Bible says are the qualifications for a pastor, and having a grand vision, good talent, and lots of followers aren't even on the list.
So that's my take on qualifications for pastoral office vis a vis this particular ministerial candidate. It doesn't mean he can never pastor again. It doesn't even mean he can't go pastor somewhere now. He can do whatever the heck he wants, and as many BCCers as want to follow him and can do that too.
But from my perspective, one typically doesn't go from unfit for office to fit for office in the span of 2-3 weeks. Restoration and personal spiritual growth take repentance plus time. So it takes time. And, more importantly, it takes repentance.
For what it's worth . . .
Can I just say that I'm fascinated by these naked conversations? I think it's clearly a net positive for BCC and its future. And thanks for the kind words I've read in these comments.
I'm a fan of Jared's. He's got three things going for him that make him interesting to me: (1) Clear passion about the topic, that is, Jesus and His church. (2) A relevant voice all his own. (3) He knows how to network - his writing has been recognized by the community he's speaking to. The same things apparently drive some others crazy - but that's the way it goes, huh?
Jared-
I just have to say that I think you are terrific--and I honestly couldn't even pick you out of a line-up. I am so proud that through this blog I now "know" you as a friend and a brother. I am praying for you and your struggles--I don't need to know what they are--and for this blog and the words that you write to us. You are an inspiration and I look forward to the time I spend with you every day (& freak out when I can't open the blog--right??).I'm sorry people are being so inconsiderate. I think you're great. Take care! stacia
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